It would appear that cults have a stronger hold on their members than the Nazi regime. I couldn't imagine a coup in the Wt organization, and a subsequent deprogramming of it's present leadership. But then....one could only hope. Wow!!!would that be amazing.
stirred but not shaken
JoinedPosts by stirred but not shaken
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Comparison too severe?
by stirred but not shaken inthe other night i watched a documentary about hitler's germany involving valkyries.
it had to do with the "resistance" movement and the attempt to assassinate hitler to stop his madness.
those involved were elite officers in the military, and there were many and they were often prominent, barons, counts, etc.
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Comparison too severe?
by stirred but not shaken inthe other night i watched a documentary about hitler's germany involving valkyries.
it had to do with the "resistance" movement and the attempt to assassinate hitler to stop his madness.
those involved were elite officers in the military, and there were many and they were often prominent, barons, counts, etc.
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stirred but not shaken
Simon, I agree that a comparison using nazi Germany would likely be a conversation stopper. I doubt that I would ever use that in conversing with a JW, as they would blister at the thought. The documentary struck me at the time, that the technics are so similar. Many here on this forum have had to endure the type of propaganda that labels them (us) as undesirables, traitors, bitter lying apostates, lacking humility, and rushing ahead of Jah, etc. Most of us are just trying to figure out how we could have been so bamboozled. The technics that were used under Hitler's regime were remarkably similar. Humans doing despicable things to other humans in the name of loyalty. I suppose it would be best to present the technics and not use the term Nazi Germany, but eventually the name nazi will be recognized in infamy for that technic. The world has been fighting against it ever since, but exists in more than one more or less obscure group. I know that the persecution I've received from friends, family ( brothers) is worse than the previous worldly attempts I had to endure growing up as a JW. And...yes I do think the comparison is too severe. -
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Comparison too severe?
by stirred but not shaken inthe other night i watched a documentary about hitler's germany involving valkyries.
it had to do with the "resistance" movement and the attempt to assassinate hitler to stop his madness.
those involved were elite officers in the military, and there were many and they were often prominent, barons, counts, etc.
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stirred but not shaken
The other night I watched a documentary about Hitler's Germany involving Valkyries. It had to do with the "resistance" movement and the attempt to assassinate Hitler to stop his madness. Those involved were elite officers in the military, and there were many and they were often prominent, Barons, Counts, etc. The assassination failed and the conspirators were rounded up by the SS and gestapo. These were incarcerated and then either faced the firing squad (if you were lucky) or hanged with a slim cord causing a slow and painful death. Those who suffered this fate, weren't the only ones to suffer. Even after the surrender to the Allies, their families had to endure the label of traitor and were mistreated. It wasn't until much later that the new government expressed it's gratitude for those men for their motives. They wanted the world to know that not all Germans were inhumane beasts. The German people had been suffering the stigma that the country and it's citizens were responsible for what Hitler and the Nazi party foisted on them through a clever, albeit diabolical propaganda program.
It made me think of how propaganda can be abused. Because all advertising is virtually propaganda, much of it is innocuous. But in the skilled hands of those bent on mind control, it will even cause the nicest of society to contribute to the ruin of others. Anything come to your mind? Is the comparison too severe?
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Identity Theft
by Jerryh inthis forum offers the stories of folks with as many variations as there are folks and a “great crowd” of lurkers whose stories may never be offered.
i am an outsider with a broken heart for some insiders that i love more than they know.
after reading nearly every “apostate” book ever written, lurking, being worn out searching the wt cd, i have come to an idea that i present for your appraisal..
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stirred but not shaken
I've been in ongoing conversations with a close friend, a former pioneer partner from the 60s and 70s. He's aware of the history of JWs and has read extensively, among other things, about Russell and his early associates. Despite knowing of the early blunders and the ongoing changes and clarifications, he has decided to remain an elder and supports the agenda of the organization. He feels that the printed material and the meetings have helped many. That's no doubt true. I told him i couldn't do that because my conscience wouldn't allow it. To me it was about accountability. If one little sheep is injured by the false teachings, it's one too many, and there is a never ending list of injurious teachings.
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My Story "Act 2"
by MarkofCane in“it has been said, 'time heals all wounds.
' i do not agree.
the wounds remain.
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stirred but not shaken
MOC
Chuck had a bubbly wife. Was known to be compassionate with elders (and others) who had to juggle families with cong. responsibilities. I give him credit for doing the CO and DO thing after raising a family. Being indoctrinated doesn't help much in the final outcome, even if you have some fine qualities. If you have to take sides, it won't be the right one in that situation.
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My Story "Act 2"
by MarkofCane in“it has been said, 'time heals all wounds.
' i do not agree.
the wounds remain.
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stirred but not shaken
Nicely presented. Good style. Telling like it is, but not bashing.
My last "Bible Study" asked some questions that related to the the days mentioned in Daniel (2300. 1260, 1335). The questions came after I had explained what the 7 times and also the 70 weeks of years were. These have a mathematical calculation and could be feasible. But those other days involved the Cedar Point convention and other weird conclusions that only an indoctrinated JW could accept. I was too embarrassed to tell them. Made some excuses that it should be left for another time. That proved to be a chink in (my) the armor. Why should I feel embarrassed about this? After all, we had been selected for receiving the real truth. That wasn't the first time I was asked to explain it, but it was the first time it came up on a study for what i thought were the best candidates I had encountered in a long time. If I would have read them the explanation out of the "Daniel Prophecy" book, that study would have shut down. They were deeper thinkers. For me, it was yet another "why" or "how" moment that allowed me (like you) to do some more personal investigating. It didn't take long. However, the big surprise came when no one wanted to hear what the investigating or research turned up. I was never given the opportunity to "lead the horse to water".
Incidentally, was that DO you referred to Charles Waller? If so, I knew him to be honest and humble, but still and indoctrinated Witness reading from a manuscript of outline from the WT.
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Any former elders brains I could pick?
by BarelyThere ini posted in another topic a few hours ago.
it is my first time on here or any website like this, ever.
i was dfed back in september for adultery.
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stirred but not shaken
If they didn't view you as repentant at the hearing, it's likely because you planned your exit from your present marriage. It doesn't matter if the marriage was a mistake, so you're going to have to show another course of repentance. I assume the marriage is over and neither of you want or can make a go of it again. This means you'll have to remain celibate and not even entertain having another mate. It will be at least a year, and you'll have to show your repentance by attending all meetings.
It's a game. If you want out after reinstatement, then view it as a game, but play by their rules for now.
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Slightly different approach - JW my tradition
by closed inhello everybody :) i have been visiting this forum for some time.
i noticed that many can't really free from the past in the org despite many years outside of jw.
i was awaken with a bang.
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stirred but not shaken
My whole life, now over 70 yrs., focused on this religion. I came to understand that it was built on "sand". I was doing research on my own to reinforce the religious views i had been taught and endorsing since childhood. The sand started to shift. I wasn't on solid ground anymore. Some of the research was just plain history, and i would enjoy sharing that with others. Unfortunately, some of it didn't blend well with Wt. doctrine, and I made the mistake of suggesting that some things will probably have to change. King of the north became the first issue, and it grew from there. I eventually had to resign as a long time elder. I just couldn't teach it to others. My activity was in time greatly reduced. Then came the shepherding visits. Then a marking talk. I can go to meetings if I want, but no social activities. Long time intimate friends (hundreds) and even my siblings and all their families (very large) will only speak to me and my wife if we bump into them and usually they'll head the other way if they see us first. Isn't that just great?
Besides having that experience, I cannot support an organization that is dishonest and misleads others...(and I'm no angel), but my conscience just won't let me . Ex. I just recently sold a car that was 10 years old. It was in good shape, but had some problems but not serious. I told the buyer everything I knew about it, because I couldn't conscientiously conceal what i knew. That's how I would want to be treated when buying a used vehicle. By my tacit approval of teachings that are wrong, would I not also be an accomplice to promoting falsehood? So even after almost 70 yrs.(lifer) I just couldn't be a part of it anymore. But that's just me.
I gotta say though...it ain't easy.
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"Freeness of speech"
by Wonderment inthis was posted on another thread (http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/6040010839031808/christmas-tree-word-appreciation), but wondered about how others here would see this with one experience i had as an elder now as ex-jws.. when we were jw's we had to be extremely careful with what we said around the brotherhood.
if someone said anything out of the ordinary, relationships among the involved were halted immediately, or were never the same afterwards.
in this place, one can say almost anything without the fear of having a truck run over us.
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stirred but not shaken
There is always one or two bros. sitting near the speaker at District (now Regional) Conventions, who are assigned to make sure the "model" is followed. You will be reminded that if you get a note from the Chairman's Office delivered to you while speaking, you are to exit the stage. While that almost never happens, it is intimidating. Bethel Brothers are given much more freedom depending on their position there in Brooklyn.
Those assigned brothers would go bonkers if Fred Franz reappeared.
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Wanna take a trip to Wallkill and Bethel?
by Bonnie_Clyde injust got my annual advertisement from illinois international travel (apparently run by jws).
for $1,199 i can take a tour from september 17-25. why are they printing so much bible literature if the witnesses are supposed to be using tablets?.
saturday: first stop at new yorks newark airport, then transferred to a marriott hotel.
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stirred but not shaken
Blondie. Wow, I knew those guys well. Ruben was a real likable guy and a good speaker. Dave entertained many a traveling brother. He could be fun..and knew where the money was. I think I heard that Ruben passed away. Last I heard he was in California. Virgochik, you've been around awhile. Our family sang Forward Go from the roof tops!